How to use Jobs-to-be-done to recruit and retain great product teams by Bobby Moesta at INDUSTRY 2025

In this keynote at INDUSTRY 2025, Bobby Moesta, co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done framework, shares some insights on what motivates people to look for new work opportunities and what leaders can do to recruit and retain great staff.

Bobby starts by observing that employees hire companies more than companies hire employees. He says: “They don’t just work for companies, they hire them to help them make progress in their life.” Money and benefits and pay and equity are part of the equation, he adds, but there’s a lot about job satisfaction that’s not embedded in these things. 

Push to leave

Bobby asks the audience to think about their last job change and what pushed them to make it. He shows a slide of factors that might push you to change jobs, such as the way you’re managed, lack of respect or trust, no opportunity for growth. They’re also the factors that a manager has to manage against. If there’s no push to leave, then employees are even looking.

He then shows a slide of factors that might pull you to a company. They include factors like gaining skills, alignment of values and beliefs, trust and respect, freedom and flexibility to do your best work. They’re also factors that you need to be able to verify before you start at a company.

People find themselves on four main quests, Bobby says. They are the seeds of how you recruit people, and everyone you interview for a job will be in one of these four categories.

1. Get out - the way I’m being managed is wearing me down, I can’t see a way to grow in this job. Help me find a supported environment, so I can be challenged, learn and grow on the job. Bobby recommends getting out and finding a job you know you can do, just for a while so you can decompress. Most people jump from “get out” into a situation that’s even worse, he says.
2. Regain control - I’m overwhelmed at work, help me find an employer who values my experience so that I can regain freedom over how I allocate my time. 
3. Regain alignment - My current employer doesn’t value my experience or credentials so help me find an employer who will appreciate my expertise so that I am respected and acknowledged. 
4. Take the next step - When I’ve reached a personal milestone and my responsibilities are growing, help me find an employer where I can take the next step in my career. 

Tips for recruiting a high-performing team

Prototype the position with contrast

• Who are the three best candidates, available or not? Unpack why and why not.
• Who would be the three worst candidates? Unpack why and why not.
• Build a set of criteria
• Do an interrelationship diagram to prioritise
• Lay out the design requirements and trade-offs

Job descriptions are broken, says Bobby. The above exercise is one he and his business partner conduct regularly to extract what they are looking for in a candidate. He says there is no such thing as a perfect candidate, so you should be realistic about the important criteria you’re looking for in a candidate. It’s a very effective way to build a better job description.

Target passive candidates

50% of the current workforce is looking for new work. Understanding that people follow predictable switching timelines helps to identify candidates who are “passively looking”. They are receptive to opportunities that address their underlying quests. You don’t need to wait for people to raise their hand, people are trying to work out what to do, and more of them are ready to hear you than you think, says Bobby.

Create compelling career narratives and rewrite job description

Help candidates to see how the role fits their broader career story and enables their specific quest for progress. Don’t sell job features, generate pull for the candidate.

Traditional job descriptions focus on features rather than the progress a candidate can make. Craft job descriptions that articulate what progress the role enables, how the position addresses specific career quests, experiences and growth opportunities available, and the impact and meaning the work provides.

Use Job Moves as a guide to conduct quest-focused interviews

Job Moves is Bobby’s 2024 book on career development. It runs through the process of unpacking your career timeline, helps you to understand your energy drivers and drains, uncovers the dimensions that are important to you around the work you do, and then prototyping a range of opportunities. It’s about uncovering the ingredients you’re made of, Bibby says. Once you morph the job to fit the people, rather than the other way around, work becomes much better, he adds. But it means making trade-offs, because there is no ideal job.

How to retain talent from a Job Moves perspective

As Bobby says, it’s important to understand that the reason people came to work with you is not the same reason as why they stay with you. He says that to retain staff you should:

• Foster progress-oriented conversations - such conversations should explore what aspects of their work provide energy versus drain, how their quest might be evolving, what trade-offs they’re willing to make and how the organisation can better support their progress.

Bobby says he has conversations with his staff every quarter about what they and he want to achieve and how those ambitions can be woven together.

• Implement ongoing quest assessment - you need to understand what drives each of your team members. Bobby says, “I’m not afraid of losing people, but I am afraid of having people who aren’t making progress.”
• Support individual progress journeys - recognise that each person’s quest for progress is unique and evolving. Effective retention strategies include providing learning opportunities aligned with individual quests, creating clear pathways for different types of advancement, offering project variety and stretch assignments, and enabling authority and decision-making autonomy when appropriate. 
• Design flexible role architecture - don’t force people into rigid job requirements. You need to be sensitive to what people want to do.